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  • It's time to move on

    Most of us knew this years ago but it should be incredibly apparent now. Enfield is 9-30 on the road in February and 18-41 against Krystowiak, Boyle, Miller and Altman. Additionally, he's had good players to work with. It's just time. We're a middling conference team and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.


  • #2
    Originally posted by Fade View Post
    Most of us knew this years ago but it should be incredibly apparent now. Enfield is 9-30 on the road in February and 18-41 against Krystowiak, Boyle, Miller and Altman. Additionally, he's had good players to work with. It's just time. We're a middling conference team and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
    FLoyd was 3- 10
    Bibby 9-25
    Raveling 7-23


    Maybe it's not as easy to win on the road in the Pac-12 as you think?

    Comment


    • #3
      Enfield's overall numbers don't concern me much as we all know what the state of the program was when he took over. Using February losses from 2014 to make a case for firing him now is a bit intellectually disingenuous, in my opinion.

      While I have serious reservations about his ability to take USC basketball to the next level, I think we should be fair in assessing where his program currently sits. To that end...

      Pac-12 play the last 4 seasons:

      1. Oregon: 46-25 (.648), 6-11 On The Road in Feb, 2 top 3 finishes

      2. UCLA: 45-27 (.625), 7-9 OTR in Feb, 3 top 3 finishes

      3. USC: 45-28 (.616), 7-11 OTR in Feb, 3 top 3 finishes

      4. Arizona: 44-30 (.595), 7-9 OTR in Feb, 1 top 3 finish

      5. Colorado: 41-32 (.562), 7-8 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes (chance to finish top 3 this year but currently sit 4th)

      6. ASU: 38-31 (.551), 5-9 OTR in Feb, 2 top 3 finishes

      7. Stanford: 38-36 (.514), 7-8 OTR in Feb, 1 top 3 finish

      8. Utah: 36-36 (.500), 6-10 OTR in Feb, 2 top 3 finishes

      9. OSU: 34-39 (.466), 5-11 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes

      10. UW: 34-40 (.459), 4-13 OTR in Feb, 1 top 3 finish

      11. Wazzu: 21-52 (.288), 5-9 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes

      12. Cal: 15-59 (.203), 1-12 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes

      A few notes:

      -USC will jump UCLA for 2nd place over the last 4 seasons with a win on Saturday, which would be their 4th in a row over the Bruins and 5th in the last 6 meetings.

      -USC and UCLA are both assured of finishing in the top 3 this season, meaning they will be the only 2 schools with 3 top 3 finishes in the last 4 years.

      -USC is tied for the most road conference wins in February over the last 4 years and is 5th in winning percentage in those games (ahead of Oregon, interestingly).

      -No Pac-12 team has a winning record on the road in February over the last 4 seasons.

      In any event, I think the above data shows that USC is certainly not a "middling" Pac-12 team & that their struggles in February are a bit overblown. "Road record in February" is an incredibly arbitrary metric anyway.

      As stated, Enfield's ceiling remains unknown, but enough data is in to be concerned that it has already been met or is close to being met. However, he has been the victim of a few very unfortunate events that were out of his control - the Bland/Melton debacle in 17/18 and of course Covid wiping out the postseason last Spring. We may all have a different perspective had USC made a tournament run in one or both of those years. To be fair, a pair of first round losses would also alter current perspective in a negative direction, but the point is that he has lost 2 opportunities to change the overall perception of his program's ultimate potential.

      I am not satisfied with where USC basketball is (I want to be a national championship contender), but firing the program's most successful coach of the last 40 years who has the team in contention for it's first conference title since Reagan was in office with one game to go is not my recommended course of action, especially since it is far more likely the next coach would be just another Morrison, Raveling, Bibby or O'Neill rather than someone who could top what Enfield has done.

      Beat the Bruins!



      Last edited by Hoss; 03-04-2021, 05:13 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hoss View Post
        Enfield's overall numbers don't concern me much as we all know what the state of the program was when he took over. Using February losses from 2014 to make a case for firing him now is a bit intellectually disingenuous, in my opinion.

        While I have serious reservations about his ability to take USC basketball to the next level, I think we should be fair in assessing where his program currently sits. To that end...

        Pac-12 play the last 4 seasons:

        1. Oregon: 46-25 (.648), 6-11 On The Road in Feb, 2 top 3 finishes

        2. UCLA: 45-27 (.625), 7-9 OTR in Feb, 3 top 3 finishes

        3. USC: 45-28 (.616), 7-11 OTR in Feb, 3 top 3 finishes

        4. Arizona: 44-30 (.595), 7-9 OTR in Feb, 1 top 3 finish

        5. Colorado: 41-32 (.562), 7-8 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes (chance to finish top 3 this year but currently sit 4th)

        6. ASU: 38-31 (.551), 5-9 OTR in Feb, 2 top 3 finishes

        7. Stanford: 38-36 (.514), 7-8 OTR in Feb, 1 top 3 finish

        8. Utah: 36-36 (.500), 6-10 OTR in Feb, 2 top 3 finishes

        9. OSU: 34-39 (.466), 5-11 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes

        10. UW: 34-40 (.459), 4-13 OTR in Feb, 1 top 3 finish

        11. Wazzu: 21-52 (.288), 5-9 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes

        12. Cal: 15-59 (.203), 1-12 OTR in Feb, 0 top 3 finishes

        A few notes:

        -USC will jump UCLA for 2nd place over the last 4 seasons with a win on Saturday, which would be their 4th in a row over the Bruins and 5th in the last 6 meetings.

        -USC and UCLA are both assured of finishing in the top 3 this season, meaning they will be the only 2 schools with 3 top 3 finishes in the last 4 years.

        -USC is tied for the most road conference wins in February over the last 4 years and is 5th in winning percentage in those games (ahead of Oregon, interestingly).

        -No Pac-12 team has a winning record on the road in February over the last 4 seasons.

        In any event, I think the above data shows that USC is certainly not a "middling" Pac-12 team & that their struggles in February are a bit overblown. "Road record in February" is an incredibly arbitrary metric anyway.

        As stated, Enfield's ceiling remains unknown, but enough data is in to be concerned that it has already been met or is close to being met. However, he has been the victim of a few very unfortunate events that were out of his control - the Bland/Melton debacle in 17/18 and of course Covid wiping out the postseason last Spring. We may all have a different perspective had USC made a tournament run in one or both of those years. To be fair, a pair of first round losses would also alter current perspective in a negative direction, but the point is that he has lost 2 opportunities to change the overall perception of his program's ultimate potential.

        I am not satisfied with where USC basketball is (I want to be a national championship contender), but firing the program's most successful coach of the last 40 years who has the team in contention for it's first conference title since Reagan was in office with one game to go is not my recommended course of action, especially since it is far more likely the next coach would be just another Morrison, Raveling, Bibby or O'Neill rather than someone who could top what Enfield has done.

        Beat the Bruins!


        Good and fair review.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hoss, I 100% agree that Enfield is due a TON of credit for resuscitating the program and stabilizing it, after the total disaster of KO. Ton of credit to Enfield for that.

          On the other hand, the heavy lifting on that was really done by the end of January 2016, when Enfield (i) had SC off to its first winning start in conference play and on its way to the NCAA Tourney (for the first time since 2011); (ii) had JMac, Elijah Stewart, Chimezie and Bennie all on the roster; and (iii) had De'Anthony Melton and Jonah signed.

          What has followed since then, is a lot of above-average, but erratic, results: losing 6 of 8 to finish the 2016 Pac-12 regular season; losing to Providence in the NCAA Tourney; losing 8 of 15 after starting 14-0 in 2016-17; completely whiffing on the 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes; losing 4 of 6 non-conference games in the early part of the 2017-18 season, causing SC to miss the NCAA Tourney with its best roster in a decade; losing 7 of 9 to close the 2019 Pac-12 regular season; losing 5 of 7 after starting 6-2 in conference in 2020; and then losing 3 of 4 games when SC was in the driver's seat for its first undisputed conference title in more than a Half Century.

          The 2017 recruiting class was particularly disastrous, as it contained the most talent coming out of the State of California about a decade. SC chose to focus on (and then miss) high profile targets like Billy Preston and Marvin Bagley, while ignoring less heralded recruits like KZ Okpala (who didn't play for a major AAU program), Remy Martin (who was overshadowed by Bagley, Cody Riley and Ira Lee at Sierra Canyon), Tyler Bey (who had moved around a lot in HS), SC legacy Jordan Schakel (who was somewhat overdshadowed by the Thompson brothers in HS), Justice Seuing (who was overshadowed at Mater Dei), Evan Battey (who was undersized and overweight), Myles Johnson and Matt Mitchell. SC also didn't recruit Saben Lee out of Tempe, AZ. That's a ton of high quality college basketball talent that went unmined just in 2017. That really planted the seeds for the troubles ahead. Even forgetting Okpala, if SC could have just grabbed any two of Remy Martin, Saben Lee, Tyler bey, Jordan Schakel, Myles Johnson and Matt Mitchell, just think how differently 2018 and 2019 could have gone.

          The 2018 class -- the one originally so highly touted (Porter, Cherry, Weaver and Brooks) -- was also a total bomb. In pursuing big names like Porter, Cherry and Weaver, SC didn't offer kids like Timmy Allen (who played for the Compton Magic) and Matt Bradley (who would have committed had SC offered him a scholarship).

          Comment


          • #6
            I actually agree with you, Chase. As I made sure to point out, I am not satisfied with where the program is after almost 8 years under Enfield and do not believe that there are enough signs that a major jump is coming. Your points about second half fades and recruiting misses are well-taken and I would actually add that Enfield's program has been totally reliant on a pair of one and done's the last 2 seasons, both of whom's commitments it seems to me were secured by the shrewd yet impossible to repeat move of hiring Eric Mobley. Next year should be extremely revealing as Enfield will not have a lottery pick big man for the first time since the sub-.500 season of 18-19.

            That said, this is basically the 5th year in the last 6 that USC is a tournament-worthy team, an unprecedented stretch of consistency in my lifetime, and I think that deserves mentioning. The question of whether Enfield can ever take the program beyond being merely tournament-worthy is an open one, but at this point I'd rather spend the next few years getting a clearer answer to that question than blowing Enfield out, letting Mike Bohn go out and hire whatever coach would come to a non-traditional power that just fired the most successful coach in it's modern history and crossing our fingers that the new coach can essentially do something unprecedented in USC basketball history, which is exactly what moving beyond where Enfield has the program currently would be.

            Comment


            • #7
              Last season, I went to the USC v Nevada game in Reno. I paid $70 a ticket to sit in the upper tier of the arena. The next Friday, I paid $30 a ticket to sit in the lower bowl at Galen. Nevada drew around 10,000 for USC and USC drew about 3,000. About the same time, I went to my son's soccer team banquet and sat next to the Nevada representative for Learfield/IGM who told me about the marketing program that IMG ran for Nevada. He also said that they would love to have the USC contract but USC has never been interested. I don't know and I am not saying that IMG is the right solution for USC to market the athletic department, although 10 of the 12 teams in the Pac work with them, but before we are going to have a successful program, I believe that we need to build a better infrastructure for the program, including fan support, before we can move forward. I believe that getting a big-name coach and recruiting top players consistently won't happen until we do that. I see the argument that USC is a football school, there's too much to do in L.A., etc. I have never believed that. I started at USC in 1973 and I have never seen USC really, professionally market its teams except for football. I agree with Hoss, at least I think he agrees with this, that Enfield has a few more years at least based on what he has done. I am hopeful that Bohn will spend that time working on improving the infrastructure of the program, as he has for football, so that the "other" sports can all move forward and when the time comes that Andy Enfield moves on, the program can be in a position to move up.

              Comment


              • G4sc
                G4sc commented
                Editing a comment
                Great post..can only hope Bohn reads it...

            • #8
              Hoss, very good post.

              Comment


              • #9
                NV, I actually think USC is now in position to get the players it needs to be a consistent Top 25 team. Keep in mind that, if you include Evan, SC has brought in six NBA players (JMac, Chimezie, DeAnthony, Kevin Porter, Onyeka and Evan) in the last seven classes. That’s easily Top 10 nationally and better than programs like Baylor and Michigan.

                And now SC has shown the ability to recruit high quality transfers from Mid Major programs, like Daniel Utomi, Tahj Eaddy, Isaiah White and Chavez Goodwin.

                If you can bring in one NBA type per year and one or two high quality grad transfers from Mid Majors, the final piece is choosing the right local HS kids to fill out the roster. SC has made some good choices there (like Bennie, Jonah and Boubicar), but have had far too many misses chasing marginal talent from across the country. Cutting down on the miss rate for local kids like Remy Martin, Timmy Allen, Matt Mitchell, Matt Bradley, etc is basically the last piece from a personnel standpoint.
                Last edited by Chase in Arizona; 03-04-2021, 04:47 PM.

                Comment


                • NV Trojan
                  NV Trojan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I completely agree. I hope that there is a path to consistent sweet 16, frequent elite 8, and occasional final 4 from here.
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